I had an interesting little back and forth with a friend of mine from school. I found this article on the internet about how a group of atheists did an anti-God campaign and one of their campaign ideas was to put posters on the sides of buses in Europe saying:
“There probably is no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.”
(see it in the picture)
But on that same page was a link to a website showing a bunch of pictures of snowflakes for people to be amazed at. The geometric design and structure of the snowflakes were pretty cool looking. The thing that struck me about this is anyone from a PhD in physics to your senile diaper pooping grandmother can tell there is something cool and almost majestic about how simple frozen droplets of water can form these complex structures. If you look at these without overlooking them, you can see thats there must be something going on there. They all didn’t happen to freeze in cool designs by accident right? This can be attributed to the laws of matter governing them, but my point is- where did those laws come from? Did they create themselves? One of my favorite speakers, Rob Bell, does a great job at explaining just how “weird” our universe is. Just how unpredictable and yet organized things just happen to be. Whether its the “weirdness” of black holes and neutron stars or the “weirdness” of sub-atomic particles, the universe we live in is freaking strange. Anyways, on to the picture and the back and forth!
Picture:
Caption I wrote:
“Proof of the creator in the creation. Look out your window.”
G’s reply: i dont understand how the snowflake proves god
My reply: let me clear it up if i can. want proof of a creator? Take a look at the creation. Look out your window. Everything seems to work so intricately with each other and beautifully that [in my opinion] it must be from some kind of entity that knew what it was doing. An entity with a purpose; with a plan. I call that entity “God” because what I know of what I see, feel and hear about Him seems to fit the profile of “God” as us humans have defined him. In this pic, it seemed ironic that on the same page that talked about how God doesn’t exist is a link to an article showing the geometric design and beauty of snowflakes for people to gasp in amazement at. Like “oops, its amazing.”. The snowflakes freeze then form shapes based on properties in water that make it want to reach equilibrium and it just happens to look cool and take on neat shapes in the process. But…where did those properties come from? Why is there such structure? There’s that old saying “from chaos comes order”, but there needs to be a process to make that order. Where did that ‘process’ come from? Where did the laws that control this matter originate? I think its from that entity we call God. There seems to be a creation, there seems to be a creator.
…except in our world. the world of concrete and metal that we made for ourselves does not make sense like the natural one. people can suck ass. we are our own gods.
G: jordan
this is the never ending arguement
if something created everything what created that something?
your dividing by zero my friend
Me: What created God? Nothing. God has always been and always will be in existence. Outside of matter, outside of time, contained by nothing, restrained by nothing. If something created God then that something would have to be greater than God. Then what created that something and what created THAT something and so on? I see what you mean, where did He come from? God did not have a beginning…which is incomprehensible. God did not have a maker, He’s the start. Understanding God is like a computer looking at its software and hardware then trying to understand the human that built it.
G: rawr i hate relgion debates they never lead anywhere
ok going with the nothing created god and not arguing that rationally
whos to say god isnt just a band of laws and logic and is indeed a big ol guy in the sky choosing wrong from right and designing each little snowflake?
i mean snowflakes forms could just be an algorithym to the very very very microscopic level
Me: haha na religion debates are fun. As long as we don’t make it personal they’re all for the sake of conversation. My best bud of 15 years doesn’t believe in God and we still have some VERY good talks back & forth for hours on the subject of God. anyways snowflakes alone don’t totally prove the existence of God. Its like they have Gods signature written on them. They were water droplets floating up in the sky [chaos] then something/laws [order] came and forced them into a structure. Some people could very well see Him AS the band of laws, but I think the algorithm itself isn’t God, the algorithm is a product of God.
yea rationally, it doesn’t make sense that God has no beginning. All we’ve ever known of life resides within the ticking of a clock. Its hard to imagine anything else. so I agree, it goes against rationale to consider a conscious all powerful being existing outside of space and time.
logically…Logically, if God exists outside of time, then maybe we don’t know everything about how the universe works because we learn through observation and all we can see is time ticking by.
Logically I see a machine (containing machines within machines) and i think there must have been something that put it here. From what I’ve heard of this “God” fellow he seems to fit the build of that something thats missing from the equation.
G: ok so we can agree on something happened at some point that led to now
im just saying
that something doesnt necessarily have anything to do with anything else
Me: Yes, something happened…(which is also up for interpretation. Some think we’re not even here, we only think we are. lol)
no, it doesn’t necessarily have to. Its a belief. It takes faith.
G: well yeah thats all quantum physics and shit
Interesting. I’ll come back and elaborate some more on this
